Is there any difference between doing the Wisdom save against the Command spell when it's cast and doing it...
$begingroup$
(This question is inspired by the question: When do enemies save against the Command spell?.)
I understand that the DM is thinking that the resisting part of the spell come on the target's turn, because they are "torn" between doing the command or their free will.
Is there any mechanical difference doing the Wisdom save on the start of target's turn, instead when the spell is cast?
What possible problem could arise by allowing the target to delay making the save until their turn?
dnd-5e spells house-rules saving-throw
edited Nov 21 '18 at 8:10
SevenSidedDie♦
209k31668948
asked Nov 21 '18 at 4:47
VylixVylix
13.3k255153
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
(This question is inspired by the question: When do enemies save against the Command spell?.)
I understand that the DM is thinking that the resisting part of the spell come on the target's turn, because they are "torn" between doing the command or their free will.
Is there any mechanical difference doing the Wisdom save on the start of target's turn, instead when the spell is cast?
What possible problem could arise by allowing the target to delay making the save until their turn?
dnd-5e spells house-rules saving-throw
edited Nov 21 '18 at 8:10
SevenSidedDie♦
209k31668948
asked Nov 21 '18 at 4:47
VylixVylix
13.3k255153
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
(This question is inspired by the question: When do enemies save against the Command spell?.)
I understand that the DM is thinking that the resisting part of the spell come on the target's turn, because they are "torn" between doing the command or their free will.
Is there any mechanical difference doing the Wisdom save on the start of target's turn, instead when the spell is cast?
What possible problem could arise by allowing the target to delay making the save until their turn?
dnd-5e spells house-rules saving-throw
edited Nov 21 '18 at 8:10
SevenSidedDie♦
209k31668948
asked Nov 21 '18 at 4:47
VylixVylix
13.3k255153
$endgroup$
(This question is inspired by the question: When do enemies save against the Command spell?.)
I understand that the DM is thinking that the resisting part of the spell come on the target's turn, because they are "torn" between doing the command or their free will.
Is there any mechanical difference doing the Wisdom save on the start of target's turn, instead when the spell is cast?
What possible problem could arise by allowing the target to delay making the save until their turn?
dnd-5e spells house-rules saving-throw
dnd-5e spells house-rules saving-throw
edited Nov 21 '18 at 8:10
SevenSidedDie♦
209k31668948
asked Nov 21 '18 at 4:47
VylixVylix
13.3k255153
edited Nov 21 '18 at 8:10
SevenSidedDie♦
209k31668948
asked Nov 21 '18 at 4:47
VylixVylix
13.3k255153
edited Nov 21 '18 at 8:10
SevenSidedDie♦
209k31668948
edited Nov 21 '18 at 8:10
SevenSidedDie♦
209k31668948
edited Nov 21 '18 at 8:10
SevenSidedDie♦
209k31668948
209k31668948
asked Nov 21 '18 at 4:47
VylixVylix
13.3k255153
asked Nov 21 '18 at 4:47
VylixVylix
13.3k255153
asked Nov 21 '18 at 4:47
VylixVylix
13.3k255153
13.3k255153
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It's about information
The main difference is that if the save is rolled when the spell is cast, then you know immediately whether the spell has worked or not. You can then use this information to inform your decisions for the remainder of your turn. For example, if you issued the command "halt" and knew that the target failed their save, then you know you don't need to move out of that target's melee range for this round, since they won't be able to attack you. In contrast, if the save is rolled on the target's turn, you don't know what the result is until after your turn is finished, so you need to account for both success and failure as you take the rest of your turn.
There are other minor mechanical implications as well, such as giving other characters a window in which to affect the outcome of the roll (as pointed out in Luke's answer), but the difference in information that you have on your turn is the main distinction, since it will be relevant every time you cast the spell.
answered Nov 21 '18 at 5:04
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
10.3k23178
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
There's no assumption in 5e (I don't know earlier versions well) that the caster knows the result of a target's save roll.
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 5:25
3
$begingroup$
@Luke, this is true, but it is common (albeit not required) for a GM to let a player know about the success or otherwise of their spells. If the GM does provide this information, then it matters when you learn it, as Ryan says in this answer. But if the GM does not hand out that information, then indeed the only difference is that mentioned in your answer.
$endgroup$
– BBeast
Nov 21 '18 at 6:11
$begingroup$
@BBeast Now we're saying that this house rule (Saves on creatures turn) is different because of that house rule (DM tells you the results of the save).
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 6:38
2
$begingroup$
@Luke There's no assumption that the caster knows the result of a saving throw, but wouldn't they know if the spell is active or not? Or is that only for spells that require concentration? (Either way, you're right, the issue is a bit more complicated than I've implied in my answer.)
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Nov 21 '18 at 7:33
$begingroup$
Not to mention the target may be able to take a reaction against you or someone else if they don't make the save until their turn.
$endgroup$
– TylerH
Nov 21 '18 at 14:40
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Yes. One example would be that other creatures may have turns before the targeted creature makes a save. They may use spells, abilities or some other action to affect the outcome of the Wisdom save.
answered Nov 21 '18 at 4:50
LukeLuke
5,0221642
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f135992%2fis-there-any-difference-between-doing-the-wisdom-save-against-the-command-spell%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
It's about information
The main difference is that if the save is rolled when the spell is cast, then you know immediately whether the spell has worked or not. You can then use this information to inform your decisions for the remainder of your turn. For example, if you issued the command "halt" and knew that the target failed their save, then you know you don't need to move out of that target's melee range for this round, since they won't be able to attack you. In contrast, if the save is rolled on the target's turn, you don't know what the result is until after your turn is finished, so you need to account for both success and failure as you take the rest of your turn.
There are other minor mechanical implications as well, such as giving other characters a window in which to affect the outcome of the roll (as pointed out in Luke's answer), but the difference in information that you have on your turn is the main distinction, since it will be relevant every time you cast the spell.
answered Nov 21 '18 at 5:04
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
10.3k23178
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
There's no assumption in 5e (I don't know earlier versions well) that the caster knows the result of a target's save roll.
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 5:25
3
$begingroup$
@Luke, this is true, but it is common (albeit not required) for a GM to let a player know about the success or otherwise of their spells. If the GM does provide this information, then it matters when you learn it, as Ryan says in this answer. But if the GM does not hand out that information, then indeed the only difference is that mentioned in your answer.
$endgroup$
– BBeast
Nov 21 '18 at 6:11
$begingroup$
@BBeast Now we're saying that this house rule (Saves on creatures turn) is different because of that house rule (DM tells you the results of the save).
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 6:38
2
$begingroup$
@Luke There's no assumption that the caster knows the result of a saving throw, but wouldn't they know if the spell is active or not? Or is that only for spells that require concentration? (Either way, you're right, the issue is a bit more complicated than I've implied in my answer.)
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Nov 21 '18 at 7:33
$begingroup$
Not to mention the target may be able to take a reaction against you or someone else if they don't make the save until their turn.
$endgroup$
– TylerH
Nov 21 '18 at 14:40
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
It's about information
The main difference is that if the save is rolled when the spell is cast, then you know immediately whether the spell has worked or not. You can then use this information to inform your decisions for the remainder of your turn. For example, if you issued the command "halt" and knew that the target failed their save, then you know you don't need to move out of that target's melee range for this round, since they won't be able to attack you. In contrast, if the save is rolled on the target's turn, you don't know what the result is until after your turn is finished, so you need to account for both success and failure as you take the rest of your turn.
There are other minor mechanical implications as well, such as giving other characters a window in which to affect the outcome of the roll (as pointed out in Luke's answer), but the difference in information that you have on your turn is the main distinction, since it will be relevant every time you cast the spell.
answered Nov 21 '18 at 5:04
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
10.3k23178
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
There's no assumption in 5e (I don't know earlier versions well) that the caster knows the result of a target's save roll.
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 5:25
3
$begingroup$
@Luke, this is true, but it is common (albeit not required) for a GM to let a player know about the success or otherwise of their spells. If the GM does provide this information, then it matters when you learn it, as Ryan says in this answer. But if the GM does not hand out that information, then indeed the only difference is that mentioned in your answer.
$endgroup$
– BBeast
Nov 21 '18 at 6:11
$begingroup$
@BBeast Now we're saying that this house rule (Saves on creatures turn) is different because of that house rule (DM tells you the results of the save).
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 6:38
2
$begingroup$
@Luke There's no assumption that the caster knows the result of a saving throw, but wouldn't they know if the spell is active or not? Or is that only for spells that require concentration? (Either way, you're right, the issue is a bit more complicated than I've implied in my answer.)
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Nov 21 '18 at 7:33
$begingroup$
Not to mention the target may be able to take a reaction against you or someone else if they don't make the save until their turn.
$endgroup$
– TylerH
Nov 21 '18 at 14:40
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
It's about information
The main difference is that if the save is rolled when the spell is cast, then you know immediately whether the spell has worked or not. You can then use this information to inform your decisions for the remainder of your turn. For example, if you issued the command "halt" and knew that the target failed their save, then you know you don't need to move out of that target's melee range for this round, since they won't be able to attack you. In contrast, if the save is rolled on the target's turn, you don't know what the result is until after your turn is finished, so you need to account for both success and failure as you take the rest of your turn.
There are other minor mechanical implications as well, such as giving other characters a window in which to affect the outcome of the roll (as pointed out in Luke's answer), but the difference in information that you have on your turn is the main distinction, since it will be relevant every time you cast the spell.
answered Nov 21 '18 at 5:04
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
10.3k23178
$endgroup$
It's about information
The main difference is that if the save is rolled when the spell is cast, then you know immediately whether the spell has worked or not. You can then use this information to inform your decisions for the remainder of your turn. For example, if you issued the command "halt" and knew that the target failed their save, then you know you don't need to move out of that target's melee range for this round, since they won't be able to attack you. In contrast, if the save is rolled on the target's turn, you don't know what the result is until after your turn is finished, so you need to account for both success and failure as you take the rest of your turn.
There are other minor mechanical implications as well, such as giving other characters a window in which to affect the outcome of the roll (as pointed out in Luke's answer), but the difference in information that you have on your turn is the main distinction, since it will be relevant every time you cast the spell.
answered Nov 21 '18 at 5:04
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
10.3k23178
answered Nov 21 '18 at 5:04
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
10.3k23178
answered Nov 21 '18 at 5:04
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
10.3k23178
answered Nov 21 '18 at 5:04
Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson
10.3k23178
10.3k23178
1
$begingroup$
There's no assumption in 5e (I don't know earlier versions well) that the caster knows the result of a target's save roll.
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 5:25
3
$begingroup$
@Luke, this is true, but it is common (albeit not required) for a GM to let a player know about the success or otherwise of their spells. If the GM does provide this information, then it matters when you learn it, as Ryan says in this answer. But if the GM does not hand out that information, then indeed the only difference is that mentioned in your answer.
$endgroup$
– BBeast
Nov 21 '18 at 6:11
$begingroup$
@BBeast Now we're saying that this house rule (Saves on creatures turn) is different because of that house rule (DM tells you the results of the save).
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 6:38
2
$begingroup$
@Luke There's no assumption that the caster knows the result of a saving throw, but wouldn't they know if the spell is active or not? Or is that only for spells that require concentration? (Either way, you're right, the issue is a bit more complicated than I've implied in my answer.)
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Nov 21 '18 at 7:33
$begingroup$
Not to mention the target may be able to take a reaction against you or someone else if they don't make the save until their turn.
$endgroup$
– TylerH
Nov 21 '18 at 14:40
|
show 2 more comments
1
$begingroup$
There's no assumption in 5e (I don't know earlier versions well) that the caster knows the result of a target's save roll.
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 5:25
3
$begingroup$
@Luke, this is true, but it is common (albeit not required) for a GM to let a player know about the success or otherwise of their spells. If the GM does provide this information, then it matters when you learn it, as Ryan says in this answer. But if the GM does not hand out that information, then indeed the only difference is that mentioned in your answer.
$endgroup$
– BBeast
Nov 21 '18 at 6:11
$begingroup$
@BBeast Now we're saying that this house rule (Saves on creatures turn) is different because of that house rule (DM tells you the results of the save).
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 6:38
2
$begingroup$
@Luke There's no assumption that the caster knows the result of a saving throw, but wouldn't they know if the spell is active or not? Or is that only for spells that require concentration? (Either way, you're right, the issue is a bit more complicated than I've implied in my answer.)
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Nov 21 '18 at 7:33
$begingroup$
Not to mention the target may be able to take a reaction against you or someone else if they don't make the save until their turn.
$endgroup$
– TylerH
Nov 21 '18 at 14:40
1
1
$begingroup$
There's no assumption in 5e (I don't know earlier versions well) that the caster knows the result of a target's save roll.
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 5:25
$begingroup$
There's no assumption in 5e (I don't know earlier versions well) that the caster knows the result of a target's save roll.
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 5:25
3
3
$begingroup$
@Luke, this is true, but it is common (albeit not required) for a GM to let a player know about the success or otherwise of their spells. If the GM does provide this information, then it matters when you learn it, as Ryan says in this answer. But if the GM does not hand out that information, then indeed the only difference is that mentioned in your answer.
$endgroup$
– BBeast
Nov 21 '18 at 6:11
$begingroup$
@Luke, this is true, but it is common (albeit not required) for a GM to let a player know about the success or otherwise of their spells. If the GM does provide this information, then it matters when you learn it, as Ryan says in this answer. But if the GM does not hand out that information, then indeed the only difference is that mentioned in your answer.
$endgroup$
– BBeast
Nov 21 '18 at 6:11
$begingroup$
@BBeast Now we're saying that this house rule (Saves on creatures turn) is different because of that house rule (DM tells you the results of the save).
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 6:38
$begingroup$
@BBeast Now we're saying that this house rule (Saves on creatures turn) is different because of that house rule (DM tells you the results of the save).
$endgroup$
– Luke
Nov 21 '18 at 6:38
2
2
$begingroup$
@Luke There's no assumption that the caster knows the result of a saving throw, but wouldn't they know if the spell is active or not? Or is that only for spells that require concentration? (Either way, you're right, the issue is a bit more complicated than I've implied in my answer.)
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Nov 21 '18 at 7:33
$begingroup$
@Luke There's no assumption that the caster knows the result of a saving throw, but wouldn't they know if the spell is active or not? Or is that only for spells that require concentration? (Either way, you're right, the issue is a bit more complicated than I've implied in my answer.)
$endgroup$
– Ryan Thompson
Nov 21 '18 at 7:33
$begingroup$
Not to mention the target may be able to take a reaction against you or someone else if they don't make the save until their turn.
$endgroup$
– TylerH
Nov 21 '18 at 14:40
$begingroup$
Not to mention the target may be able to take a reaction against you or someone else if they don't make the save until their turn.
$endgroup$
– TylerH
Nov 21 '18 at 14:40
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Yes. One example would be that other creatures may have turns before the targeted creature makes a save. They may use spells, abilities or some other action to affect the outcome of the Wisdom save.
answered Nov 21 '18 at 4:50
LukeLuke
5,0221642
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes. One example would be that other creatures may have turns before the targeted creature makes a save. They may use spells, abilities or some other action to affect the outcome of the Wisdom save.
answered Nov 21 '18 at 4:50
LukeLuke
5,0221642
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes. One example would be that other creatures may have turns before the targeted creature makes a save. They may use spells, abilities or some other action to affect the outcome of the Wisdom save.
answered Nov 21 '18 at 4:50
LukeLuke
5,0221642
$endgroup$
Yes. One example would be that other creatures may have turns before the targeted creature makes a save. They may use spells, abilities or some other action to affect the outcome of the Wisdom save.
answered Nov 21 '18 at 4:50
LukeLuke
5,0221642
answered Nov 21 '18 at 4:50
LukeLuke
5,0221642
answered Nov 21 '18 at 4:50
LukeLuke
5,0221642
answered Nov 21 '18 at 4:50
LukeLuke
5,0221642
5,0221642
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f135992%2fis-there-any-difference-between-doing-the-wisdom-save-against-the-command-spell%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
